Type Moon...?

Hey guys I just want to add a Type Moon topic. Type Moon is a software company who makes visual Novels such as Fate/Stay Night, and Tsukihime. What made me want to create this topic was this epic discussion about Type Moon with Saber. What are your thoughts on Type Moon? Did you like Kara no Kyoukai? Did you hate the anime adaptation of Fate/Stay Night? Got some insights about Type moon? Any questions or answers go in here. And let the discussions begin!

I'm a bit luke warm about Kara no Kyoukai. While it was no doubt beautiful, I found it to be a bit slow and convoluted. The first couple episodes seemed like 10 minutes of talking, 20 seconds of gory still image, then 10 more minutes of talking and rinse and repeat. But I still enjoyed it. I haven't seen Fate/Stay Night. I've been meaning too. Do you guys recommend that one?

Talking to Saber at the moment.. I think he was not satified with the review with Kara no Kyoukai. Might I suggest doing a second take? O yeah the 7th Movie is out for Kara no Kyoukai and the Anime of Fate/Stay Night (that RRFDP will be getting into) is not good and does not give the original material any justice.

As Baku and I discussed on the RRFTP podcast, Kara no Kyoukai is definately not the type of anime you can watch on the side. It's a very complex, twisted story with lots of talking and explaining, a very dialogue heavy set of movies. This is Nasu's way of storytelling. Tsukihime and Fate/stay night also have this, except they cut a lot of all this from the respective anime adaptions since those were TV shows.

As mentioned on the podcast, you really need to be on your toes while watching Kara no Kyoukai in order to understand what's really happening on the screen. Given the fact that Kara no Kyoukai was developed as a set of movies made for cinemas to begin with instead of a direct to video production or a TV anime, they had the chance to produce a more faithful adaption and develop the story and describe the events at their own paces.

I've heard from a lot of people that they didn't like Kara no Kyoukai because it was so full of dialogue, complex dialogue that is, and that they were simply overwelmed by the entire setting. It's kinda like Evangelion from that point of view at least. You could also say that the makers of the movies did not really give a damn about those who didn't already know about Kara no Kyoukai and TYPE-MOON. You can see that from just listening to the characters and all their complicated talk about world concepts and what not, they take it for granted that you already know these things. Kara no Kyoukai is definately not something newbies to TYPE-MOON should watch first. More like, it's the thing you should watch last.

Otherwise you're just gonna end up saying, "it's certainly a beautiful movie series, but the convoluted plot raped my brain", sort of.

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On the matter of Fate/stay night, I'd actually say that people interested in TYPE-MOON but unwilling to read the Visual Novels (yet) should probably watch the Fate anime first since it's more or less the most easily accessible of the three main TYPE-MOON branches. The anime mostly follows the initial route of the VN "Fate", which is Saber's story but sorta shuffles some stuff from the other two routes in there which hurts the plot a lot in my opinion. That entire arc revolving around Caster (which is episodes 17 to 19) is just a mess which leaves you wondering what the entire thing was actually about if you have not read the entirely of the novel, it's just a jumbled story arc that explains so little.

What might turn of some people from the anime is, as some people put it, the Shonen Fight style of the series. There's a lot of fighting evolved, this opponent cannot be beaten so let's take on another enemy first, beat them and then go back back to the original one but then there's still some other enemies that get introduced up until the reveal of the final boss of the story. It's certainly not as bad as say Naruto, BLEACH and what have you, but if you can't handle that sort of stuff, the Fate anime might not be that much of a recommendation.

Another issue the anime has, at least in my opinion, is the unstable quality of the animation, it's a Studio DEEN show by the way, so that may already tell something. The first few episodes look really, really beautiful, lots of great shading and light effects, sharp artwork etc, but then the second half of the show really degenerates in terms of quality, character designs end up looking simpler and what not.

One of the strong points of the Fate anime is most certainly the music. I really love Kawai Kenji as a composer. He did a really good job capturing the mood of the story, both by composing new music as well as remixing a few tracks from the original VN.

Trying to give a sort of unbiased recommandation for Fate/stay night is not really an easy task for me. I would say it's definately not the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it's most definately an above average ~ good series.

If you like anime such as Shakugan no Shana or Kaze no Stigma, you're certainly going to like this one.

Before reading the VN I thought this was the best anime ever, but after I had read it my regard of the adaption sank quite a bit, but it still has a place in my heart. Besides, it doesn't fail even remotely as much as the Tsukihime anime by J.C.Staff in terms of adapting the material.

I've heard from a lot of people that they didn't like Kara no Kyoukai because it was so full of dialogue, complex dialogue that is, and that they were simply overwelmed by the entire setting. It's kinda like Evangelion from that point of view at least. You could also say that the makers of the movies did not really give a damn about those who didn't already know about Kara no Kyoukai and TYPE-MOON.

I hope it's not like Evangelion because the creators of Evangelion admitted in a documentable interview that nothing in the anime had any real meaning relating to religion or anything else and that all the so called symbolisms and "complex" subject matter was included simply to be "fashionable." Chiaki can site this source for you.

Oh I'd certainly like to see that source.

What I meant by Kara no Kyoukai having something in common with Evangelion is that it's series that is hard to follow. The difference is however, that Evangelion leaves a lot of things for the viewer to decide and discuss, whereas Kara no Kyoukai has it's set values and themes.

Saber wrote:Oh I'd certainly like to see that source.

The following is an expert from "Stray Dog of Anime: The films of Mamoru Oshii" by Brian Ruh. Published in 2004 by palgrave macmillan.

Chapter 3: Angel's Egg (1985), page 52

"While allusions to religion, both Japanese and Western, are not uncommon in anime, serious explorations of religion are fairly rare. For instance, the TV series and films of Neon Genesis Evangelion (Shin Seiki Evangelion, 1995) made use of Christian symbolism, but this was more of a marketing gimmic than serious soul searching. Said Kazuya Tsurumaki, the program's assistant director: "There are a lot of giant robot shows in Japan, and we did want our story to have a religious theme to help distinguish us.... There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just throught the visual symbols of Christianity look cool. If we had known the show would get distributed in the US and Europe we might have rethought that choice." Religious references in anime films are oftern superficial and used to impart an exotic and mysterious flavor."

So while all possible intent for meaning and symbolism within the series is not dismissed entirely by this passage, certianly the heavy Christian symbolism which seems to be a base for many inferencances which people draw from can be dismissed. It also goes to show you that while series may appear to be very outwardly deep, inwardly the intent is rarely to produce a product which will provoke serious thought and more something that will become popular by whatever means necessary. In my opinion only, it throws the credibility of any of the other serious symbolism of the show into question. Not just because the Christian symbolism is rendered void, which other symbolism may depend upon. But, if something that seems to weigh heavy throughout the series is a marketing gimic, how much else is real intent at symbolic depth and meaning and how much is bells and whistles and pesudo intellectualism passed as an oppertunity for flashy advertisement?

Now, people will gain whatever they gain from it of course, whatever the intent. But, that should help with clearing up the intent of at the least the Christian Symbolism... and supply the source you were asking for.

@All the replyers except Saber. The reason why people who adore and understand Kara no Kyoukai is because the anime is well not messed up and does pretty well in delving into the psychological state of all the characters in the anime. Whilst Evangelion just weirds the heck outta me with characters who are messed up to begin with ( a quote from you Saber). What I dislike about Evangelion ( I really didn't get the whole thing) was because the overuse of abstract sequences that really leaves me scratching my head. Characters don't even do much for Evangelion. Shinji is just pathetic, Asuka is well though positive yet really messed up in the head and Rei Ayanami is well Rei Ayanami. I think this anime's direction was unintentional, given the fact that the production company left the whole staff and Hideki Anno depressed while doing this anime (forgive me if I'm wrong about this). What Kara no Kyoukai has done really well is how they introduce the characters, while some only get a spotlight for only one movie they are in fact really fleshed out characters. I care more for these characters than Evangelion. Sure the anime is heavy on dialogue but at least I got through what the premise is when it comes through analyzing this anime. It's a much clearer picture when compared to the novel I suppose. O and Kara no Kyoukai is just awesome.

As we are discussing this topic, I would like to point out the 7th movie for Kara no Kyoukai is out.. Enjoy guys.

bakuhasu wrote:As we are discussing this topic, I would like to point out the 7th movie for Kara no Kyoukai is out.. Enjoy guys.

I am most likely to post my own review on the series in the review section these days.

Just finished the seventh movie and I have to say that is one of the best movies with it's use of mouth to mouth with 2 guys and use of saliva.

Just finished Tsukihime (anime not the VN). Comparing this with the novel is not on par because the Visual Novel lends itself to Nasu's great story telling. I just felt that the anime just took the important plotpoints of the Visual Novel and just go from there. The characters aren't exactly the same when comparing the Visual Novel. Also I would like to add that this anime is just dark and bland at best. Nothing really stands out from it making Tsukihime a really forgettable 13 episode anime.

What I like to change however is that they upped the character the designs to the Type-Moon Staple with Takashi Takeuchi's designs in order to distinguish itself. 24 episodes will be a great length since it's in order to incorporate Nasu's theories and logic in the universe of Tsukihime. I would like to see a remake from Ufotable ( this is due to Kara no Kyoukai) which seem to be most faithful when it comes to Nasu's complex storytelling and talk about being faithful to the story at the same time.

Just started to rewatching the series.....AGAIN! This time comparing the VN with the anime. Solid but then again does not delve into the details that Nasu has incorporated in the series.

Im curious, are Are any of Type moons VNs Mature, are they all Mature, or are they all fine for someone my age? Because I really am intrested in VNs/Dating Sims, but can't play them because most are hentai -_- And even if Type Moon is hentai, can anyone suggest some good, clean ones?

Tsukihime, it's sequel Kagetsu Tohya, Fate/stay night and it's fan disc Fate/hollow ataraxia are all 18+ because they all contain sex. Though hollow ataraxia is the only of those which actually resembles a dating sim, because it's "Eclipse" mode which is unlocked upon story completing allows you to go on a date with one of the girls. The others are plot-focussed novels and contain sex as part of the plot, though by comparision those sections are very short.

mirror moon, the team which translated Tsukihime and Fate/stay night, has programmed an all-ages mode of sorts for Tsukihime which disables the H-scenes. That has to be selected upon installation of the patch however. There is no such thing for Fate, but I believe the WAKU WAKU group which is attempting to incorporate the new CGs and music from the PS2 version of the Fate/stay night is actually trying to do something like that as well. The PS2 version of Fate/stay night, "[Réalta Nua]", is an all-ages version of Fate.

The only "clean" ones I can think of right now is Tsukihime PLUS+DISC, but that's just a bonus disc with some additional sidestories that are mostly unrelated to the plot of Tsukihime, so there is no point in reading them if you haven't read the actual Tsukihime itself. Other than that, the fighting games, the MELTY BLOOD series, Fate/unlimited codes and Fate/tiger colosseum.

Oh yeah, and Kara no Kyoukai, but that's an actual novel, no visual novel.

Saber wrote:

Oh yeah, and Kara no Kyoukai, but that's an actual novel, no visual novel.

I guess the main reason that Kara no Kyoukai is adapted into a novel is because of it's content. It's way too mature and dialogue heavy in terms of content, psychological analysis of the characters in the stories, and Nasu's incorporation of his laws within his own world that he created(Which is indeed complex). Not to mention that Kara no Kyoukai does not take place in a school. The characters are adult. Nasu has an intention to target that audience with Kara no Kyoukai.

In the 7th episode of the podcast, Mitsugi said that "basically it's Ryougi Shiki and friends trying to solve some murder mysteries". I counter that by saying no and that is a demeaning way of putting it because there is much towards the individual movies than what is shown. Sorta of what Nasu wants to convey. This in fact takes multiple viewings and I think that's why Nasu creates his world with so much detail.

Hmm, I don't mind VNs, I just like the ones when you actually can make choices alot, and it actually have an outcome on the story, and have many multiple endings, like at least 10-15, but alot more would be really cool too =D

Any things like that, I don't care if there rated M or not, please

You make a lot of choices turing your progress in both Tsukihime and Fate/stay night. There is also multiple endings. Tsukihime as 9, whereas Fate has 5 (6 if you've patched your PC version to include the new ending from Réalta Nua).

In any case, I would read them anyway, sex or not, because it's simply awesome storystelling.

Rekka wrote:Hmm, I don't mind VNs, I just like the ones when you actually can make choices alot, and it actually have an outcome on the story, and have many multiple endings, like at least 10-15, but alot more would be really cool too =D

Any things like that, I don't care if there rated M or not, please

Though not highly recommended that you should go for Type-Moon Visual Novels as your first to pop the cherry (you TRAP). Go for something simple and Moe like something else ( yeah Type-Moon is too cool for ya). Type Moon is not about Moe and will never be about Moe period..... As a moeblob yourself you seem to like that stuff and Type-Moon's writing style and detailed dialogue can be overwhelming!!!!! Play it safe because the Mushroom does not like you....

You act like I can't handle complicated plots D=< I like animes with good/amazing plots even if they arn't moe, for example, I've started watching Monster =P Plus back when I was in public school, about 98.263 percent of the time I'd have my head buried in a book, so I'm use to heavy dialouge XD

Rekka wrote:You act like I can't handle complicated plots D=< I like animes with good/amazing plots even if they arn't moe, for example, I've started watching Monster =P Plus back when I was in public school, about 98.263 percent of the time I'd have my head buried in a book, so I'm use to heavy dialouge XD

You should just stick with Haruhi for 3 more years till you're more mature for it. I mean the game is for eighteen plus.

P.S Saber is not a trap XD

I'm glad to hear that you are watching Monster Rekka. It is arguably the most well written anime out there. Really outstanding. For other fantastic storylines I would seek out Higurashi, The Twelve Kingdoms, Fantastic Children, and many many more.

Mitsugi wrote:I'm glad to hear that you are watching Monster Rekka. It is arguably the most well written anime out there. Really outstanding. For other fantastic storylines I would seek out Higurashi, The Twelve Kingdoms, Fantastic Children, and many many more.

None of that is related to TYPE-MOON, so keep that outside, please =P

G-Dragon wrote:P.S Saber is not a trap XD

Most definately not.

Saber wrote:

Mitsugi wrote:I'm glad to hear that you are watching Monster Rekka. It is arguably the most well written anime out there. Really outstanding. For other fantastic storylines I would seek out Higurashi, The Twelve Kingdoms, Fantastic Children, and many many more.

None of that is related to TYPE-MOON, so keep that outside, please =P

G-Dragon wrote:P.S Saber is not a trap XD

Most definately not.

Trying to keep the holy ground of Type-moon pure... I like that...

For future refrence, I have seen Higurashi.

Anyway, moving on, I am intrested in the Type moon VNs, I havn't done to much reading in a while (due to being homeschooled) so I guess I'll play some other VNs/Dating sims to back used to reading (not like I need to, but just because I feel like it, hoping I don't find a bad one while my parents are in the room XD) And then will play some of the more approprite Type-moon VNs.